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Thursday, April 8, 2010

Blood Angels get cheap Devistators? other BA lameness

So, the more and more I absorb the BA codex, the more and more I find its advantages over the C:SM codex... As someone who converted to the BAs a few months back (yes, 4 months before the codex was released) I am begining to be a bit shocked at how strong the BA dex is. Now, Im not stating its overpowered, but I cant really find a weakness in the army... When I compare it to the C:SM, I know the C:SM has awesome special characters who change the dynamic flavor of the army, however I dont know what else it can bring against the BAs.

So, here are things I think should be changed in the BA dex:
The Devastators in the BA dex should NOT be cheaper than C:SM. BAs are an assault army and the C:SM are a shooty army, so why does this work?

BAs should NOT have sternguard veterans... They are one of the benefits to the C:SMs that is no longer unique.

The Furioso dreadnought should NOT be front armor 13. Thats the place of the ironclad, which is no longer "that" dreadnought. The furioso dreadnought also should not have "blood talons" either, they kinda lame in how good they can be... Give them lightning claw rules, fine, but the stacking attacks. You could take out a squad of marines a turn with that.

Here is what I think the C:SM has to offer over the BAs:
- Null Zone Librarian power
- Troops that can take a land raider (notice in the BA codex most units can take dedicated transports on pg. 90 only!)
- Special Characters which change the play style of the army
- Cheaper TH/SS Terminators

So, with that said, please leave your comments! I would love to hear what advantages the C:SM can bring that im just not thinking of (and dont say land speeder storms or thunderfire cannons).


JustLikeTheCaptain April 8, 2010 at 8:50 PM  

By and large I agree with you. However, BA Tactical Squads "can take any dedicated transport." The "see page 90" is merely a page reference, and not the rule. Since the LR is a dedicated transport, it can be taken by troops. Also, many BA special characters can change the playstyle of the army, such as Astorath's Death Company or Dante's Sanguinuary Guard.

In my opinion, the biggest advantage Space Marines have over Blood Angels is its versatility. While arguably a marginal advantage, the choices presented in C:SM provide for an effective combined-arms army. C:BA, by contrast, almost forces you to perform frontal assaults the majority of the time.

Anonymous,  April 9, 2010 at 12:32 AM  

Devastators look like they're just fixing the way they're massively overpriced in C:SM. They've gone down in price, and assault terminators have gone up.

Anonymous,  April 9, 2010 at 6:24 AM  

I'm having similar issues with the Codex. For an assault driven force to have more expensive assault terminators is crazy, as is having cheaper devastators.

The dedicated transport land raiders is another thing I don't agree with, nor the fact the BA players get the new skimmer, furiosos and librarian dreads. Honestly, what is to stop any techmarine sticking on 2 CCW's to a dreadnought (look at the Ironclad).

The only other thing I noticed was that BA's can't have scout land speeders (storms) which are one of my favourite models.

I also agree with the comments to your post above about dedicated transports.

Sean April 9, 2010 at 6:28 AM  

>The Furioso dreadnought should NOT be front armor 13. Thats the place of the ironclad, which is no longer "that" dreadnought.

Ummm... Furioso's are pretty much Ironclads, but with those few extra BA touches. Space Wolves get the Ironclad, too, I don't see why it's a problem.

Anon has it right that the reason Devs got the price drop is because they're stupidly overcosted on their guns in the SM book. BA and SW get something much closer to the correct number.

BA have a number of other problems as well- for example, standard Dreads being in the HS slot only is actually very awkward in terms of buying fire support for the army- you only have three slots, not six, to get it. Baal Preds in the FA don't count, as they are short-range and don't aim for the same kind of targets.

Null Zone is a huge advantage and shouldn't be discounted. It singlehandedly makes the lives of several popular units (TH/SS Terms, Fortune Council, Zoanthropes) extremely miserable. Not that the other BA powers aren't good, but it isn't a simple case of "BA is better."

BA also can't take the all-bikers army, which is one of the stronger SM builds. And, of course, they pay more for their TH/SS Termies and all their transports, although the latter is not without the obvious bonuses. Even so, paying more for something better isn't always an advantage.

Student Teacher April 9, 2010 at 8:06 AM  


SWs don't get the Ironclad. They may get Bjorn (with AV13) but he isn't much like an Ironclad, and hes a "bit" more expensive.

7eAL,  April 9, 2010 at 6:34 PM  

Hasn't anybody noticed that Blood Angels Land Raiders can Deep Strike for free? Doesn't anybody notice that putting any unit in Reserve is actually good for the unit? Doesn't anybody notice that having a Land Raider Deep Strike is basically like having a Planetstrike drop-bastion, without the firing ports? Somehow it seems everyone imagined that Land Raiders as Dedicated Transports aren't better than Land Raiders as Heavy Support. Think about it - it doesn't occupy a Force Organization slot, so it means you don't lose a Vindicator or a Storm Raven every time you take a Land Raider. The ability to take those choices without competition should cost points. Somehow everybody also thinks that Deep Strike should come for free if a unit doesn't have Inertial Guidance or some other insurance policy. Has everybody forgotten that Deep Strike is a useful and powerful ability, and that insurance policies only allow players to take ridiculous decisions without suffering any of the risks? What happened to 'difficult strategic decisions' where a commander must decide whether the risk outweighs the gain?

Turbo April 29, 2010 at 10:10 AM  

just as an aside on the topic of "what C:SM gets that BA don't"- Captains without Artificer Armour or Relic Blades.

Honour Guard get no power-weapons or Artificer Armor base (i know we get sanguinaries but that doesn't help Seth if he wants artificer retinue in a tank)

also no Venerable Dreads??? it actually describes Furioso's as "the most venerable of all" some of them having fought outside the Emperor's palace on Terra, yet no venerable re-roll for us.

i think BA are a strong codex, but more people seem to fear IG, SW and perhaps Tyranids

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